US Politics

But The Two Parties Are the Same, Dude…

From Jen Sorensen at Daily Kos:

I find that people who spew the platitude that “the candidates are the same” tend to be the ones who have the least to lose if the wrong candidate is elected. At risk of sounding melodramatic, these elections truly are a matter of life and death. If you end the Affordable Care Act and millions of Americans lose their health insurance, people will die as a result. A recent estimate puts the number at 26,000 deaths per year due to lack of insurance; that’s more than a few September 11ths. Then there’s the Global Gag Rule, which Romney would reinstate. It rarely gets mentioned, but this policy wreaks havoc on women in impoverished nations. Romney would also end contributions to the U.N. Population Fund, which combats the spread of HIV and prevents 22,000 deaths annually.


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  • Uh,dude – Obamacare = Romneycare= Heritage Foundation care. AHIP’s point person, Liz Fowler of Wellpoint (revolving in and out of Baucus’s office) headed the private health insurance team that wrote it. Obama ran it through. AHIP gave up a little, but got a whole lot, like millions of chattel customers. The Mullahs, predictably, tossed out the Medicaid provisions. We got screwed.

    The Obama I voted for said he supported a public option. Turned out he lied about that. He didn’t lift a finger in that direction except the one he lifted at progressives. When AHIP decided we were ready for the private mandate, they got it. McCain would have done the same, likely.

    No difference, dude.

      • You don’t seem to deal in specifics in comments, usually just leveling an I’m-leaving-the-room-now gesture. I knew when Obamacare passed that despite its woeful inadequacy and glaring sellouts and
        defects, that it would be treated as a real cure for our health care system by Dems, since Obama signed it. That’s all you guys are doing – putting lipstick on the pig called ACA.

  • the “dude” in the title is a fantastic example of the dripping condescension some people feel compelled to employ against those who refuse to vote for kill lists, indefinite detention, wall street immunity, and corporate trade agreements.

    • Shorter Lizard: You’re just a meanie!

      As Sorenson’s cartoon itself easily points out, sometimes “dripping condescension” is well deserved.

      And speaking of (hypocritical) ‘condescension’, why do you feel that some people’s choices are the result of ‘compulsion’ against those whose ideas are of purely reasonable refusal?

      • implying those who criticize the two party system lack sophistication, dude, is an easy smear (and kinda passive aggressive), not a reasoned response to legitimate concerns.

        • I “implied” no such thing. What I stated rather directly is that you are a hypocrite, accusing others of condescension while engaging in it yourself. You think your concerns legitimate while calling others concerns “compelled”. One of us is being passive aggressive, but it certainly isn’t me.

        • Since I’m very tired of dealing with crap, Lizard, let me be very clear here. I don’t care if you vote for Jill German Beer Glass, or Holy Underwear Guy, or Ayn Rand, or the President of these United States or even Mickey Mouse. I *really* don’t care if you think you participate in the system by voting against the system. Vote against your own interests or for them as you see fit.

          What I do care about is the absolute arrogance you bring to the discussion in telling others that they are not allowed to have an opinion about your ideals. Yes, they are, just as you whine that you have some pathetic primacy over theirs. Just as you are entitled to your opinions, others are entitled to make fun of them. You seem to have a real problem with that. I suggest it’s a personal problem …

          • oh yes, I love telling people they are not allowed to have an opinion. that is exactly the point I was trying to make, thanks for clearing that up.

  • Heres what I believe and being a democrat longer than most here…. Lizard has a privilege to vote or not to vote.

    I , Of course think that he should vote, even if it is the lesser of two evils.

    I also believe he and his kind may one day find someone who can speak like Thomas Dorr did in his day( Look American History up folks). And hopefully his feelings of kill lists, indefinite detention, wall street immunity, and corporate trade agreements…. which I believe of getting rid of too, well come true. But realistically Lizard it must be one thing at a time, and hopefully in rapid succession.

    Lizard, Politics are now watching how many times you vote in general elections. Without you voting now and every time an election comes out. your giving one party the ammunition they need to argue against your right to vote, becuz they are doing it already in voter purges everywhere.

    Vote Lizard, vote even if its mickey mouse, but don’t lose your right to vote, by not voting at all.

        • The last time I pointed that very thing out, I was told that I’m “a bully”. But in the state of Montana, it remains nonetheless true. In the grander scheme, it remains equally true that a vote for Mittens is no more or less symbolic than a vote for “The Rent is Too Damned High” guy.

          What’s different are the motivations one ascribes to one who would vote for another. Mark thinks we’re all sheep herded by psychopaths (which he incorrectly uses interchangeably with “sociopath”). Lizard is very happy to gauge the quality of the choices of others and ascribe them motivations based on a criteria unique to him. We all do so, to some degree. Some just deny it more stridently than others. Despite his sarcastic rebuttal, I never accused Liz of not allowing others their own opinion. He simply and forthrightly argues that none are allowed to have an opinion regarding his opinion. As I indicated above, sometimes “dripping condescension” is well deserved.

          When the horse-race is over, we all want some kind of result. I don’t believe for a second, I doubt any do, that the folks who vote Stein actually expect her to win. The result they want isn’t about who lords it from the White House. The result they want is very apparently that others pay attention to their personal concerns. No problem … until the personal concerns of one conflict with the personal concerns of another. I want a President who will be best at recovering the American economy in the best manner possible, which is why I focus so much more on the Congress. I want the MCA and the Patriot acts repealed, the endless wars on drugs and Islam to end, and civil equality for all Americans. Lizard seems to want all of those as well. I think the best vote is Obama and he thinks different.

          Where we have a bit of a problem is who we hold accountable if we don’t get what we want.

    • The right to vote is one of many tools in a democratic society, but low on the list in terms of effectiveness. After all, if all the cards in the deck are the same, what difference is the choice? Far more important are petitions for redress, ground-level organizing, resistance to tyrannical forces, creation of communication channels, and discipline of those who have won the franchise. Debs sat out an election in prison – he was expressing of the true democratic impulse – courage and resistance.

      The attitude here is that voting is our all, and as I look around I see that it is pretty much the only remaining expression of self-governance in this silly contry. It is an empty gesture, a cry of hopelessness. To pretend that a choice among money-backed partisans offering up empty platitudes is equivalent to democracy is our intellectual bankruptcy on parade.

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Don Pogreba

Don Pogreba is an eighteen-year teacher of English, former debate coach, and loyal, if often sad, fan of the San Diego Padres and Portland Timbers. He spends far too many hours of his life working at school and on his small business, Big Sky Debate.
His work has appeared in Politico and Rewire.
In the past few years, travel has become a priority, whether it's a road trip to some little town in Montana or a museum of culture in Ísafjörður, Iceland.

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